Miata Help, Please

"for Michigan" (formichigan)
01/31/2016 at 23:03 • Filed to: help, mazda miata, nb

Tonight at work, my brother’s recently acquired 01 Miata SE decided it doesn’t want to run anymore.

He reported that the car was fine until he put fuel in it on the way back from a delivery. When he went to leave on his next delivery, it wouldn’t run. Turning the key would start the engine, but it would immediately shut off. Mashing the gas pedal didn’t effect it in any way.

There was no tanker at the gas station when he filled up, so I doubt the problem is the new fuel. My initial thought was fuel filter or pump, but that didn’t quite seem right, so I spent some time on Google in an attempt to find an answer. The most likely alternative I found to fuel system troubles was immobilizer issues, so I ran up to see the car with his extra set of keys.

My experience mirrored his and the only info I have to add is that both the check engine and immobilizer lights come on after the engine shuts off. The immobilizer light shuts off quickly, but the CEL stays on.

I don’t have a way to read codes currently, so I can’t say what’s causing the CEL. It seems, based on my limited knowledge, that he may need his keys reprogrammed.

Does anyone here have any helpful input?

DISCUSSION (25)

Flavien Vidal > for Michigan
01/31/2016 at 23:12

Does the engine crank? Does it smell gas near the injectors? If he can crank the engine, I don’t think it’s a key problem... If it smells gas but nothing happens, he might not get any spark, in which case it could be a coil or distributor problem...

If it ran a little then stopped, I would say, go with the distributor, it’s fairly common to have it fail on Miatas...

for Michigan > Flavien Vidal
01/31/2016 at 23:13

Turning the key would start the engine, but it would immediately shut off.

Did you even read what I wrote? Because it doesn’t sound like you did.

someassemblyrequired > for Michigan
01/31/2016 at 23:17

Miatas have a small and temperamental battery. That’s the first thing to check - even if it shows good volts, it can be dead inside. Dead/dying battery can cause all sorts of weird issues with startup. That’s always the first place to start. O’Reilly’s carry a good AGM replacement - it’s about $125 IIRC (Part No:MIATA), and you don’t have to worry about it spilling its guts everywhere.

I’d be surprised if it was the immobilizer, as once the keys are input, would be weird for them both not to work. Even a battery disconnect won’t “lose” the codes (you need to replace the PCM before you should need to relearn keys).

for Michigan > someassemblyrequired
01/31/2016 at 23:21

Agreed on the keys. I thought it would be really strange for both keys, which we’ve used multiple times since purchasing the car, to stop working at the same time.

someassemblyrequired > for Michigan
01/31/2016 at 23:22

If you’re looking for help, that’s an awfully lousy attitude to unleash on someone who has lots of experience with old Mazdas. Be nice and we’ll do our best to help.

someassemblyrequired > for Michigan
01/31/2016 at 23:23

Battery #1 suspect. Will have enough juice to crank but not enough to let it settle into running. You can try it on a jump to confirm or just haul the battery over to your local auto parts place for a test.

for Michigan > someassemblyrequired
01/31/2016 at 23:25

I’m not trying to be ungrateful. His first sentence asks a question I already answered in my initial post. It’s like he saw my opening question, thought, “Won’t start, I know the problem,” and responded without bothering to actually read about what is wrong with the car.

for Michigan > someassemblyrequired
01/31/2016 at 23:27

I’ll run up there and see what jumping it does. Auto parts stores are closed right now, but if that’s the issue, it’ll be nice to be able to get it out of the way ourselves tomorrow.

someassemblyrequired > for Michigan
01/31/2016 at 23:32

OK, but in this case, let it slide man. There’s a lot of good info in what he wrote that you could use if it’s not the battery.

someassemblyrequired > for Michigan
01/31/2016 at 23:34

Sounds good - let me know how it goes.

booradley007 > for Michigan
02/01/2016 at 00:08

Check the dumb stuff first. My camry did the same thing turns out there was a bug in the maf sensor. check the fuel filter. (blow compressed air through it backwards into a rag to clear it). If that doesn’t work then move on to the iac/iat valve on the intake.

for Michigan > someassemblyrequired
02/01/2016 at 00:13

Didn’t help, unfortunately. It won’t start now. No more immobilizer light, but the CEL is persistent now.

One of my brother’s buddies is going to bring his code reader up there tomorrow to see what the CEL is on for.

Thanks for the help.

Flavien Vidal > for Michigan
02/01/2016 at 00:24

I actually got sidetracked before typing my answer and had forgotten this part but whatever... As you can see with the second part of my answer, I went back and remembered it started and drove a little. Only forgot to remove the early part of the post. Anyway, good luck fixing it :)

for Michigan > Flavien Vidal
02/01/2016 at 00:38

Sorry for the strongly worded response and thanks for the input.

The car won’t even start now, it just cranks endlessly. I’m not going to have time to work on it until later this week, so it may just end up going to our mechanic for this one.

someassemblyrequired > for Michigan
02/01/2016 at 01:00

Yep definitely next step. Hopefully code will give you some clues. Might be a good time to touch base with your local Miata club too. They're usually eager to help and close by, so if it's not an obvious fix they will be a good resource for parts and diagnosis.

Flavien Vidal > for Michigan
02/01/2016 at 01:00

Check if the spark plug get electricity when cranking first. Get a spark plug out, put it back on its spark plug cable and make it touch a metallic part of the engine for grounding purposes. Ask your friend to crank the engine and see if there is any spark. (be careful not to get a little bit of an electric shock... not dangerous, it’s just never welcome)

My guess is that there isn’t right now and chances are that your distributor took a little beating. Maybe your friend “cleaned up” his engine with a hose, or the car was stored in a quite humid place or it just simply died.

But check if you have spark. If you do, I would say there is 70% of chance that it’s just your distributor, 25% of chance that it’s your coil and 5% of chances that it’s something else :)

for Michigan > Flavien Vidal
02/01/2016 at 20:00

Rereading this, does the NB have a distributor? Because I can’t find anything about distributors anywhere.

Flavien Vidal > for Michigan
02/01/2016 at 20:08

Kinja'd!!!

The thing in the back where all the spark plug cable go.

It looks like this...

http://www.good-win-racing.com/Mazda-Performa…

It’s apparently not called a distributor and couples a coil and ignitor all together... I had to change one in the past on a NB Miata, it’s a 10 minutes job. But first did you check if you have any spark?

for Michigan > Flavien Vidal
02/01/2016 at 20:25

Going to do that tomorrow.

The car started again after my brother got off work last night, so the bonehead drove it to work tonight instead of taking a working car and letting me look at his broken one. Now it’s stranded at the store again.

Flavien Vidal > for Michigan
02/01/2016 at 20:35

Hum, sounds like a really failing distributor (or whatever it’s called on the NB lol). They usually don’t 100% fail... They just work very badly, stop, then work again and so on...

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > Flavien Vidal
02/04/2016 at 11:02

Miatas don’t have dizzies. They all have coil packs. The coil pack is a relatively common failure point for Miatas, though. Will run about $120 for a brand new part.

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > Flavien Vidal
02/04/2016 at 11:25

“If it ran a little then stopped, I would say, go with the distributor”

I don’t believe ‘01+ Miatas have a distributor since there are coil packs setup in there. And those should cause a non-start issue. If the car is starting but cutting out, it should be a fueling issue. And if the fueling issue is ruled out, an immobilizer problem is likely.

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > for Michigan
02/04/2016 at 11:31

You find a solution to this issue? I have an '01 so I am pretty familiar with the car. And I have certainly read a ton on Miata.net regarding similar issues. I have some ideas but curious where you have gotten to so far.

for Michigan > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%)
02/04/2016 at 11:35

Went to look at the car Tue, but my socket didn’t fit down the spark plug tube, so I couldn’t check for spark. Went over the coils and wires and everything looks fine.

Tried cranking it for a bit and didn’t smell any fuel in the engine bay.

It isn’t throwing any codes, so my brother and his buddy are convinced it’s the fuel pump. They went and bought one yesterday and are going to put it in today.

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > for Michigan
02/04/2016 at 11:42

That sounds sensible, I know there are a ton of problems with some fueling stuff from the factory anyways. If they already bought the fuel pump, I guess putting that in and see what happens is the best route. I would imagine trying some starter fluid would be a good way to confirm a fueling issue to begin with. And checking the electrical continuity to the pump to confirm the pump is getting power. No sense in chasing spark or fuel until you rule out one or the other.